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Steve Jones (talk | contribs) (→Rescue Grab Bag) |
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A tacklesack which lives at the bivy containing: | A tacklesack which lives at the bivy containing: | ||
*karrimat | *karrimat | ||
| + | **Not sure this is necessary if we are going to have a stretcher. | ||
*candles | *candles | ||
*stove (e.g mini trangia) | *stove (e.g mini trangia) | ||
| Line 10: | Line 11: | ||
*big survival bag | *big survival bag | ||
*basic first aid stuff | *basic first aid stuff | ||
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| + | That grab bag sounds rather heavy weight all or nothing type approach. I would advocate more or less sticking to having a convenient underground first aid kit to hand including candles, cigarette lighters, survival bags in a peli case. This makes for a relatively light weight response suitable for cavers overdue or in minor difficulty. MG | ||
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| + | Probably a good idea to prepack the stretcher and sleeping bag. However I would suggest that a stove is required in the medium term (rather than short term), so I do not think that it would be a significant detriment to leave it until futher help turns up. MG | ||
| + | |||
| + | Beg to differ Martin. Storm shelter/bothy is incredibly warm - and good for morale. DCRO's "crash bags" are a similar content to the above and all fits into a small tackle bag - 2 small Daren Drums and a bothy. My view is that the bothy is the best thing in there! Steve Jones | ||
Also at the bivy we could use: | Also at the bivy we could use: | ||
*a new stretcher? | *a new stretcher? | ||
| + | **What is considered wrong with our current stretcher, or has it been damaged? Our current stretcher is quite a poor solution is spinal injury is suspected. But I would also ask if we actually have many people in the club with the expertise to be moving such a casualty, more than simply out of short term harm. MG | ||
| + | |||
*a new emergency sleeping bag | *a new emergency sleeping bag | ||
| + | **Is the old emergency sleeping bag damaged, or deemed unfit for purpose? MG | ||
==First Aid Kit Suggestions== | ==First Aid Kit Suggestions== | ||
| − | *How easy is it to get hold of stronger painkillers? | + | *How easy is it to get hold of stronger painkillers? |
| − | *redo first aid kits from scratch - yellow one got very wet and no list of contents and no guidance for use plus lots missing | + | **There are risks involved in using stronger painkillers, particularly morphiates, they can kill. I would suggest that to get stronger painkillers would be the easy bit, compared with finding people properly trained in their use. Having said that it may be possible to find a doctor who is prepared to teach specific people the indications, contraindications and proper use. Having said that I do not know who to approach. MG |
| − | *reduce numbers of first aid kits and keep them all together - there were at least 5 at base camp! - why do we need more that one there? | + | *redo first aid kits from scratch - yellow one got very wet and no list of contents and no guidance for use plus lots missing. |
| + | **We also should be drying out first aid kits when they get wet. The yellow one was let wet for almost a year. Was the orange first aid kit used for the rest of last expo, or did the yellow one stay up the hill. MG | ||
| + | ** Not sure what happened to the list of contents and guidance for the use of the drugs. I am pretty sure they were there when we were packing the kits in Bull Pot Farm. MG | ||
| + | **I am not sure what redo from scratch means ... I am not going to throw away perfectly good first aid provisions. MG | ||
| + | |||
| + | *reduce numbers of first aid kits and keep them all together - there were at least 5 at base camp! - why do we need more that one there? | ||
| + | **The normal plan is to have a medium and a small kit at base camp. There is a small first aid kit for minor injuries, in order to help mitigate against messing up/loosing the larger first aid kit. The principle use of the bigger kit is to allow for the restocking of top camp first aid kits. MG | ||
| + | **If there is only one camp, then the extra underground and camp first aid kits, along with any spare first aid material can be left in Cambridge. MG | ||
==Map with cave entrances marked== | ==Map with cave entrances marked== | ||
| Line 25: | Line 42: | ||
==Accident analysis== | ==Accident analysis== | ||
| − | + | ||
| − | + | Here is a draft of an accident analysis. Please amend as necessary (there are some details missing, particularly the times at which things happened). I have not yet completed the section on 'Problems encountered' or 'Analysis and recommendations' because I would like some input from other people first - so please add your comments! [[User:Kathryn|Kathryn]] 10:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC) | |
| + | |||
| + | [[Accident analysis]] | ||
Latest revision as of 20:07, 8 June 2009
Last year we dealt very well with the accident. But it makes sense to look back and ask what we could have done better/how we could have been more prepared in case of future accidents. Please add any ideas you have, whether you were around last year or not; or explain if you think any of the ideas are bad.
Contents
Rescue Grab Bag
A tacklesack which lives at the bivy containing:
- karrimat
- Not sure this is necessary if we are going to have a stretcher.
- candles
- stove (e.g mini trangia)
- cigarette lighter(s)
- storm shelter
- big survival bag
- basic first aid stuff
That grab bag sounds rather heavy weight all or nothing type approach. I would advocate more or less sticking to having a convenient underground first aid kit to hand including candles, cigarette lighters, survival bags in a peli case. This makes for a relatively light weight response suitable for cavers overdue or in minor difficulty. MG
Probably a good idea to prepack the stretcher and sleeping bag. However I would suggest that a stove is required in the medium term (rather than short term), so I do not think that it would be a significant detriment to leave it until futher help turns up. MG
Beg to differ Martin. Storm shelter/bothy is incredibly warm - and good for morale. DCRO's "crash bags" are a similar content to the above and all fits into a small tackle bag - 2 small Daren Drums and a bothy. My view is that the bothy is the best thing in there! Steve Jones
Also at the bivy we could use:
- a new stretcher?
- What is considered wrong with our current stretcher, or has it been damaged? Our current stretcher is quite a poor solution is spinal injury is suspected. But I would also ask if we actually have many people in the club with the expertise to be moving such a casualty, more than simply out of short term harm. MG
- a new emergency sleeping bag
- Is the old emergency sleeping bag damaged, or deemed unfit for purpose? MG
First Aid Kit Suggestions
- How easy is it to get hold of stronger painkillers?
- There are risks involved in using stronger painkillers, particularly morphiates, they can kill. I would suggest that to get stronger painkillers would be the easy bit, compared with finding people properly trained in their use. Having said that it may be possible to find a doctor who is prepared to teach specific people the indications, contraindications and proper use. Having said that I do not know who to approach. MG
- redo first aid kits from scratch - yellow one got very wet and no list of contents and no guidance for use plus lots missing.
- We also should be drying out first aid kits when they get wet. The yellow one was let wet for almost a year. Was the orange first aid kit used for the rest of last expo, or did the yellow one stay up the hill. MG
- Not sure what happened to the list of contents and guidance for the use of the drugs. I am pretty sure they were there when we were packing the kits in Bull Pot Farm. MG
- I am not sure what redo from scratch means ... I am not going to throw away perfectly good first aid provisions. MG
- reduce numbers of first aid kits and keep them all together - there were at least 5 at base camp! - why do we need more that one there?
- The normal plan is to have a medium and a small kit at base camp. There is a small first aid kit for minor injuries, in order to help mitigate against messing up/loosing the larger first aid kit. The principle use of the bigger kit is to allow for the restocking of top camp first aid kits. MG
- If there is only one camp, then the extra underground and camp first aid kits, along with any spare first aid material can be left in Cambridge. MG
Map with cave entrances marked
We had a bit of trouble explaining to the Austrians where the entrance was. It would be useful to have a map with all the major entrances marked on together with their coordinates.
Accident analysis
Here is a draft of an accident analysis. Please amend as necessary (there are some details missing, particularly the times at which things happened). I have not yet completed the section on 'Problems encountered' or 'Analysis and recommendations' because I would like some input from other people first - so please add your comments! Kathryn 10:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)